by jimwalton » Wed May 10, 2017 3:26 pm
First of all, you need to justify (substantiate) biblical references for God's Deterministic Will, which sounds like God controls everything and we are merely robots playing it through—no responsibility, no free will, no accountability. I don't think the Bible teaches God's deterministic will, but I'll be pleased to consider the references you offer and to have a great conversation about it.
Secondly, we need to talk about providence. God as a righteous and sovereign governor is vastly different than God as a beneficent totalitarian. His sovereign rule doesn't require deterministic domination. While the Scripture certainly teaches that God rules the earth with power and dominion, we also know that God's power is sometimes withheld (for instance, he could have sent armies of angels to rescue Christ from the cross, but chose to restrain his power there). And if He can and does restrain his power (as we also know from texts about judgment—God holds back his judging of various people and nations until the proper time), then we are not determined, but are free to exercise free will under God's sovereignty and in a context of God's providence, but not under a deterministic will.
We know from Scripture that God allows people to do as they please, and He works within that framework to draw people to Himself, to accomplish the plan of salvation, and to continue to work for the good of those who love him. Providence has more to do with God's watchful care over, guidance toward his purposes, and sustaining of the universe and His creatures than it does with determinism.
I refer you to Jeremiah 18.1-12, where it shows that God's intent and plan are fluid depending on how people respond. This is the scene of all things being determined but of free will, responsibility, and accountability. I would contend that God has not written the script, but the direction, flow, and purposes of history, and He is ever in flux to bring humanity to his salvific purposes. Perhaps an analogy would be a GPS. A destination has been programmed in, and a course is suggested. We are free to follow that course or to diverge from it. Every time we diverge, we are told that the GPS is recalculating, and it sets a new course to the same destination. When we make wrong turns, the GPS tells us so and instructs us how to get back on route. The GPS never loses sight of the goal, and is determined to get us there. It works untiringly to adjust its course (even sometimes avoiding traffic and congestion areas) to bring us to where we are supposed to go.
So how do I make sense of the idea that God will allow humans to be born into the world, since God knows that this person will not believe in Him? Because God never stops drawing that person to Himself, and there are some theories from very godly theologians who believe that even after death God will continue the process of reconciling all people to Himself. In the end, it is not true that God has written an eternal destination for that person, but that person will choose their own eternal destiny, as we do here on earth. Dennis Jensen believes in a doctrine called semi-restorationism, where after death God will continue to restore even the damned to Himself, and people will yet exercise their free will. Those who are restored may experience a lesser version of heaven, but be there nonetheless. I'm not sure what I think of Dennis's theology, but it's an example of ideas that are out there.
God ultimately knows the course that everything will take and the events that will occur, but, as I said, knowledge is not causative. God has not planned that event to occur. I would still like to see your Bible study on God's deterministic will.
First of all, you need to justify (substantiate) biblical references for God's Deterministic Will, which sounds like God controls everything and we are merely robots playing it through—no responsibility, no free will, no accountability. I don't think the Bible teaches God's deterministic will, but I'll be pleased to consider the references you offer and to have a great conversation about it.
Secondly, we need to talk about providence. God as a righteous and sovereign governor is vastly different than God as a beneficent totalitarian. His sovereign rule doesn't require deterministic domination. While the Scripture certainly teaches that God rules the earth with power and dominion, we also know that God's power is sometimes withheld (for instance, he could have sent armies of angels to rescue Christ from the cross, but chose to restrain his power there). And if He can and does restrain his power (as we also know from texts about judgment—God holds back his judging of various people and nations until the proper time), then we are not determined, but are free to exercise free will under God's sovereignty and in a context of God's providence, but not under a deterministic will.
We know from Scripture that God allows people to do as they please, and He works within that framework to draw people to Himself, to accomplish the plan of salvation, and to continue to work for the good of those who love him. Providence has more to do with God's watchful care over, guidance toward his purposes, and sustaining of the universe and His creatures than it does with determinism.
I refer you to Jeremiah 18.1-12, where it shows that God's intent and plan are fluid depending on how people respond. This is the scene of all things being determined but of free will, responsibility, and accountability. I would contend that God has not written the script, but the direction, flow, and purposes of history, and He is ever in flux to bring humanity to his salvific purposes. Perhaps an analogy would be a GPS. A destination has been programmed in, and a course is suggested. We are free to follow that course or to diverge from it. Every time we diverge, we are told that the GPS is recalculating, and it sets a new course to the same destination. When we make wrong turns, the GPS tells us so and instructs us how to get back on route. The GPS never loses sight of the goal, and is determined to get us there. It works untiringly to adjust its course (even sometimes avoiding traffic and congestion areas) to bring us to where we are supposed to go.
So how do I make sense of the idea that God will allow humans to be born into the world, since God knows that this person will not believe in Him? Because God never stops drawing that person to Himself, and there are some theories from very godly theologians who believe that even after death God will continue the process of reconciling all people to Himself. In the end, it is not true that God has written an eternal destination for that person, but that person will choose their own eternal destiny, as we do here on earth. Dennis Jensen believes in a doctrine called semi-restorationism, where after death God will continue to restore even the damned to Himself, and people will yet exercise their free will. Those who are restored may experience a lesser version of heaven, but be there nonetheless. I'm not sure what I think of Dennis's theology, but it's an example of ideas that are out there.
God ultimately knows the course that everything will take and the events that will occur, but, as I said, knowledge is not causative. God has not planned that event to occur. I would still like to see your Bible study on God's deterministic will.