Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

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Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by jimwalton » Mon May 05, 2014 6:10 pm

Let's dip just a small amount into some of those texts I told you about.

In John 1.1, it says the Word (Jesus) was with God, and that he was God. How could he be with God and be God simultaneously? The verse says that while the Word was with God (imperfect tense, denoting continuing action in past time), that same Word also was God (same verb and form). It is a grammatical equating of the Word and God while maintaining their separation.

John 10.29-30: In v. 29 Jesus talks about he and the Father as separate persons. In v. 30, he says they are one. Jesus and the Father are not the same person, but they are one in essence and nature. The word he uses is ἕν, meaning "one". Not one person, which would be the Greek word *heis*, but one is essence or nature. If he had meant separate persons, he would have used the plural. He was making himself equal to God while maintaining his distinction from God.

Col. 1.15: "Image" is εἰκὼν. It means a form that makes something more real. The visible Son makes the invisible Father visible. The Greek word *omoioma* would mean "resemblance," but Paul uses *eikon* to mean the same essential character.

Heb. 1.2-3. In v. 2 the Son is clearly written about as being of different person than the Father god (v. 1). But v. 3 tells us the Son is the exact representation of the being of God and the radiance of his glory. "Representation" is the word χαρακτὴρ, showing us that there is exact correspondence between the two persons. Verse 2 uses ἀπαύγασμα (radiance) that the Son is the glory shining forth from the Father's glory (the light coming from the light).

Philippians 2.6: "Being in very nature God..." The word that is used is μορφῇ. It means the visible way the invisible nature is made known.

Now, given these words (and I apologize for dealing with them so briefly), what would your conclusions be about how can God be one and more than one at the same time?

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by William Hendershot » Mon May 05, 2014 6:09 pm

If Jesus, being God, was separated from God the Father during His spiritual death, how can their be only ONE God?

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by jimwalton » Mon May 05, 2014 5:47 pm

As I mentioned before, the theology of the Trinity is that God is one essence manifested in three separate persons, or identities. The Son and the Father can be separated from each other as separate identities, just as the Son was on earth talking to his Father "up there". But they were one essence, as John 1.1, John 10.30, Col. 1.15, Heb. 1.3, and Phil. 2.6 (as well as others) make clear. The Greek words used in these text are very specific: One God, manifested in more than one person.

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by William Hendershot » Mon May 05, 2014 5:35 pm

When Jesus was spiritually separated from God the Father, was Jesus still God? If so, would that not make two individual Gods?

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by jimwalton » Thu May 01, 2014 4:16 pm

When his "flesh and bones man" ceased breathing on the cross and his physical brain waves stopped waving, he actually died a physical death on the cross. As you say, the spirit left the flesh.

When he took the sins of the world on himself (Isa. 53.6), he endured the wrath of God against sin (Rom. 1.18, 3.21-26; Gal. 3.13), and he spiritually died (1 Thes. 5.9-10)—not a cessation of spiritual existence, but a separation between Son and Father because the sins of the world were upon Jesus. Does that help?

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by William Hendershot » Thu May 01, 2014 3:53 pm

The Son of God was in heaven with God "in the beginning" in some form, which I am calling His spirit. The flesh and bones man was merely what the spirit of the Son of God inhabited for a short while until the spirit left the flesh and bones and returned to the Father.
In this scenerio, in what way did the Son of God actually die?

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by jimwalton » Thu May 01, 2014 3:44 pm

Yes, but we have to define what that means. It's far from a superficial concept. First of all, as I have said, death is not a cessation of existence; it's a separation from life. Jesus became separated from his physical life when he experienced physical death; he became separated from God the Father when he died spiritually. So yes, God the Son died both physically and spiritually, but the being of God in his undivided divine essence did not cease to exist.

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by William Hendershot » Thu May 01, 2014 3:42 pm

So, God died?

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by jimwalton » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:01 pm

Thanks for asking. No, that's not correct. The theology of the Trinity maintains that there are separations of persons within the unity of God. The explanation comes in the distinction between the principle of divine action and the subject of divine action. The subject of divine action can be either the Father, Son, or Spirit, while the principle of all divine action is the one undivided divine essence. The person of the Son, on earth, could be separated from the person of the Father, in "heaven". Jesus didn't have to cease being God when He died; as a matter of fact, it is impossible that he ever stopped being God. John 1.1 lets us know that while he was different in person from the Father, he was still (and always) God.

Re: Was Jesus' death spiritual or physical?

Post by William Hendershot » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:54 pm

So with His separation from God, Jesus was not God when He died, correct?

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