by jimwalton » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:14 pm
This seems like quite the rant, but I'm still willing to dialogue. We get our information about God from two places: First and primarily from the Bible, secondarily and only indirectly from nature. The Bible is where and how God has chosen to reveal the truth about Himself to us. It is in the Bible where He explains how He reveals Himself in nature, in history, in our consciences, and sometimes in our lives.
Rape is a sexual word pertaining to one human's sexual predation and abuse of another. We also take this word and use it metaphorically and figurative to speak of other abusive situations, such as a land being "raped" by drought. There is no suggestion, hint, inference, or teaching in the Bible that God rapes people, either literally or figuratively. The burden of proof is on you to provide the evidence of your accusation.
You have correctly identified how a hierarchy works. As far as different levels of heaven, there are no hierarchies of heaven, but of course there are hierarchies of beings. God (obviously) is at the top. After that, your analysis gets a little shaky. The Bible says that human are lower than the angels (Ps. 8.5) but also that we will judge angels (1 Cor. 6.3). But just because God has sovereignty and authority over us doesn't require or even mean that he abuses us. God tells me what to do, and I have a choice as to whether or not to obey or submit. If I choose to do what He asks or guides, I do it willingly. So of course I don't deny hierarchy, but I certainly deny abuse, and definitely deny rape. It's just not a biblical idea let alone true.
As to Mark 15.34, what Jesus meant by it has to be interpreted, since the Bible doesn't explain what Jesus meant by it. But I certainly get my interpretations of the text from the Bible itself, not from movies. However Gibson chose to portray Christ was his choice, but that doesn't mean that's the way it was. We have to interpret the Bible by using the Bible, not by claiming that movies have any authority in that regard.
> The greatest thing I hate about god is that he lies to us.
I would be pleased to continue talking about this with you. Where has God lied to us?
> Have you ever heard saying "if you the want the sunshine, tolerate the ran?" Is this not God's creation?
Sure I've heard the saying, and it does apply to God's creation. It's illegitimate, however, to extrapolate that to the character of God as if God, then, is able to be impugned by "his own rules." We know that life has goods and bads, ups and downs, blessings and suffering, but that doesn't mean any of those attributes apply to God. The "bads...downs...and suffering" are the result of sin and apply to humanity, not to the character of God.
> Tell me something, when a company fails what does a Good Leader do? He takes responsibility.
Right.
> Has God ever taken responsibility for his Creation?
Absolutely. He devised a plan to redeem it and reconcile it to himself. He devised a plan to save humanity from its sin and guilt. He sacrificed himself to make the plan operative. He takes responsibility all the time, but he doesn't take the blame. We are to blame for the problems of creation, not God. Blame belongs where blame is due—on the perpetrators of sin: HUMANS.
This seems like quite the rant, but I'm still willing to dialogue. We get our information about God from two places: First and primarily from the Bible, secondarily and only indirectly from nature. The Bible is where and how God has chosen to reveal the truth about Himself to us. It is in the Bible where He explains how He reveals Himself in nature, in history, in our consciences, and sometimes in our lives.
Rape is a sexual word pertaining to one human's sexual predation and abuse of another. We also take this word and use it metaphorically and figurative to speak of other abusive situations, such as a land being "raped" by drought. There is no suggestion, hint, inference, or teaching in the Bible that God rapes people, either literally or figuratively. The burden of proof is on you to provide the evidence of your accusation.
You have correctly identified how a hierarchy works. As far as different levels of heaven, there are no hierarchies of heaven, but of course there are hierarchies of beings. God (obviously) is at the top. After that, your analysis gets a little shaky. The Bible says that human are lower than the angels (Ps. 8.5) but also that we will judge angels (1 Cor. 6.3). But just because God has sovereignty and authority over us doesn't require or even mean that he abuses us. God tells me what to do, and I have a choice as to whether or not to obey or submit. If I choose to do what He asks or guides, I do it willingly. So of course I don't deny hierarchy, but I certainly deny abuse, and definitely deny rape. It's just not a biblical idea let alone true.
As to Mark 15.34, what Jesus meant by it has to be interpreted, since the Bible doesn't explain what Jesus meant by it. But I certainly get my interpretations of the text from the Bible itself, not from movies. However Gibson chose to portray Christ was his choice, but that doesn't mean that's the way it was. We have to interpret the Bible by using the Bible, not by claiming that movies have any authority in that regard.
> The greatest thing I hate about god is that he lies to us.
I would be pleased to continue talking about this with you. Where has God lied to us?
> Have you ever heard saying "if you the want the sunshine, tolerate the ran?" Is this not God's creation?
Sure I've heard the saying, and it does apply to God's creation. It's illegitimate, however, to extrapolate that to the character of God as if God, then, is able to be impugned by "his own rules." We know that life has goods and bads, ups and downs, blessings and suffering, but that doesn't mean any of those attributes apply to God. The "bads...downs...and suffering" are the result of sin and apply to humanity, not to the character of God.
> Tell me something, when a company fails what does a Good Leader do? He takes responsibility.
Right.
> Has God ever taken responsibility for his Creation?
Absolutely. He devised a plan to redeem it and reconcile it to himself. He devised a plan to save humanity from its sin and guilt. He sacrificed himself to make the plan operative. He takes responsibility all the time, but he doesn't take the blame. We are to blame for the problems of creation, not God. Blame belongs where blame is due—on the perpetrators of sin: HUMANS.