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[jimwalton]

OK: TRUMP & SUPREMACISM

I hate to bring it up, but I need to bring it up. Is it true, and where's the evidence? He gets slandered about a lot of things that aren't true, but some things are true, so let's see what you have.

1. White supremacists believe that white people should dominate and subjugate all other ethnicities and races. I haven't seen this in DT, but if you have (behavior, writings, speeches), I'd like to read the evidence.

2. White supremacists generally want to kill off other ethnicities or races (Hitler, KKK). I haven't see this in DT, but if you have, I'd like to read the evidence.

3. White supremacists believe that those of the white race are genetically and inherently superior to all other ethnicities and races. I haven't see this in DT, but if you have, I'd like to read the evidence.

Supremacism has shown itself through history as genocide, enslavement, murder, and cultural subjugation. Of which of these is DT guilty, and where's the evidence?

I'm serious. I can't possibly read everything or be privy to all the information available. Is DT being slandered again, or is he provably a supremacist?

I hate to have this discussion, but I need to have this discussion.

[JK - just kidding]

The big thing was the lack of condemnation from DT, and him placing the blame on both sides. Even David Duke tweeted that his lack of condemnation was as good as his approval. I don't think that DT is a White Supremacist, but I think he handled the Charlottesville situation in the worst way possible.

[jimwalton]

Thanks for chiming in. I guess my response is two-fold: (1) I read that he did respond: "We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides — on many sides." I interpreted that to mean his disapproval of white supremacism and also disapproval of violence against them if they were assembled lawfully; (2) Is it true that any time a standing president does NOT respond to a domestic situation we can consider it endorsement? I would honestly be curious to hear your response, Jamie.

[Jan Palmer]

I think he handled it just fine. He is absolutely right that there is blame on both sides. I don't see bona fide conservatives, not fringe lunatic groups, perpetrating violence on those they disagree with no matter how repugnant they find their "causes" to be. And, whether we like it or not, all groups have the right to express their opinions peacefully. We may not like what their free speech contains, but the point is that it is free SPEECH that is permitted, not free to cause chaos, and that was what happened when counter-protesters decided to take matters into their own hands. DT may not say what people want him to say in our PC culture, but he does tell it like it is. No matter how much his actual record and actions speak for themselves, people will continue to make outrageous and totally false accusations and assumptions about him.

[jimwalton]

Thanks, Jan. You've said good things. But so many are accusing him of supremacism that I'm trying to find out if there is legitimacy to that accusation.

[Josh W]

Part of this is dependent on one's definition of Supremacism. A simplistic definition would hold supremacism as believing that a certain race/social group/national identity/culture is superior to others, and advocates for the domination of that group. While it is not clear that DT advocates explicitly for this, he has certainly spoken in a manner that helps self-identified white supremacists feel empowered and supported, yet he has done nothing substantial to distance himself from these groups, suggesting (although not definitively proving) that he does not view supremacists as a particularly problematic force (which in my mind is troubling). DT is clearly an ethnocentrist (evaluates different cultures/beliefs/ideologies based on his own background, standards, and customs). Many individuals are tacit (unknowing/unintentional) ethnocentrists, but the manner in which DT discusses law and order, the inner city, immigration and migration concerns, reverse racism, and affirmative action (even if one agrees with the policies, the rhetoric is riddled with ethnocentric features) all demonstrate an overt ethnocentrism that supports a status quo of traditional white male domination of political and economic spheres (also reflected in his demeaning statements regarding women). If we understand DT to be an overt ethnocentrist, who refuses to distance himself from supremacist groups (which he could easily clarify with some strongly worded, consistently delivered statements) his actions have empowered white supremacists, and actions are more important than whatever he may "believe," and to what extent. If desired, I am happy to provide quotes indicative of ethnocentric rhetoric as an example.

[jimwalton]

Josh, great comments. In ways your comments about him mirror very closely with a discussion I had on Facebook a number of months ago trying to determine if DT was xenophobic. The upshot was that he's not, but his language is so reckless and dehumanizing that he could be interpreted that way, and he was (possibly unconsciously) encouraging that mindset in others. It's not secret that he's not a careful speaker. He says outrageous things using ambiguous terminology unwisely chosen and not responsibly filtered.

I wonder if it's the same thing going on here. DT obviously feels privileged, that he was the receptor of a genetic inheritance that has helped him excel, and that his elite education has positioned him for greatness. All of that is probably true, but it doesn't make him a supremacist. If you have quotes of ethnocentric rhetoric, I would like to see them. Thanks.

[Phil Phil]

I'll throw my hat in. I am not a Trump supporter, nor was I a Clinton/Obama one either let me start with that.

There is no room in our country for white supremacist or violent antifa group. Violence is never ok.

The media does not like Trump. This is, in large part, his doing. I watched his "speech" last night in Phoenix. It was embarrassing. He sounded like a petulant child and not the leader of anything.

The media also has an over-the-top narrative. They feed each other.

Trump lies. Flatly. He lied last night. Numerous times. The news didn't tell me that, I watched it. I fact-checked him on the spot. He omitted the very things his own supporters in Washington criticized him for.

He went after John McCain and others that stand in his way of getting his poorly written healthcare bill passed—a bill that didn't even have the full support of his most ardent voters.

He claimed on how he passed over 50 pieces of legislation. Lie. He enacted Executive Orders. That is not legislation.

He claimed responsibility of The new VA bill. Lie. It was introduced years ago by a Republican Congress and just worked through. He had no input.

He claimed to reduce the Debt. False. It was the last Obama Administration budget. The only changes that Trump made was to cut funding to certain departments to increase military spending. His administration made no cuts.

It goes on and on.

Is Trump a racist? I have no clue.

Is he a liar? Yes, bald faced.

He is also a confessed or caught, adulterer, sexist and committing fraud in business. There are court records.

In essence, I don't believe in what he says.

Is that fair?

[jimwalton]

Sure that's fair, and my perception is that it's true. DT plays very loose with the facts—so loose, in fact, that he gets it wrong over and over. It's no secret that he's not a careful speaker. He says outrageous things using ambiguous terminology unwisely chosen and not responsibly filtered. I think we all agree he creates a lot of his own problems.

[Suzanne]

Jim, you wrote "he gets slandered about a lot of things that aren't true." What are these things? I have no idea what you are referring to. My negative opinion of Trump is based on his own words and behavior.