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[Newbie]

Lucifer, also known as Satan, was cast out of Heaven by God for believing he was above God, which is obviously a sin. How is it possible that Lucifer can possibly sin in a perfect and sinless place such as Heaven? How can he "create" sin in the presence of God? Now I'm sure because of Lucifer's status among the angels that he could be given free will; but even with that free will, it would seem impossible to conjure sin in a perfect place, and in the holy presence of God.

[jimwalton]

The idea of Lucifer being cast out of heaven comes primarily from a particular (and errant) interpretation of Isa. 14.12. Isaiah 14 is about the king of Babylon, who was an arrogant son of a gun. Despite widespread support through church history that this is talking about Satan, there is a lot to be said against this interpretation. The position can't be sustained with any close scrutiny. It reads WAY too much into the text. The term "Lucifer" itself comes from a Greek translation of it, as well as the Latin Vulgate *luciferos* ("shining one", i.e., Venus). As a matter of fact, the Old Testament nowhere portrays Satan as a fallen being.

But regardless that Isaiah 14 isn't talking about Satan, your question still stands: How is it possible that a spiritual being in a perfect and sinless place can conjure up sin?

The character we call Satan, and all our understandings of him, don't really congeal until Jesus is on the scene in the NT. The New Testament says nothing of his origins or of his fall. His existence, according to the NT, is indisputable, as well as his evil nature, and that he is a being who possesses a free will. As such we're left to deduce that God created him good (since Genesis says everything God made was good), and that he used his free will to rebel. Despite that it was a sinless environment, any being that is not God is not perfect, and by that I mean beyond the capability of wrong. Free will isn't free if one is restricted from half of the choices. I can hold a perfect piece of hand-cut crystal in my hand. Its perfection doesn't guarantee that it's unbreakable, and it's not the fault of the creator of it that it's breakable; it's the nature of glass. But we aren't told where Satan came from or what happened to him to make him the way he is. We're left to surmise.

[Running Eric]

What about Luke 10.18?

[jimwalton]

Jesus' comment in Luke 10.18 pertains to the report of the disciples casting out demons, not to any primeval falling of Satan. The 72 had been sent out to cast out demons, among other things, and they return with reports of success. So what Jesus is saying is, "While you were casting out demons, I was seeing a vision of Satan's kingdom crumbling." He is saying that Satan's "army" was retreating before Jesus' representatives.

[icecold]

Why didn't God just never create someone who has the abilty to become evil and rebel against him? Is it because of free will?

[jimwalton]

God relates to us on the basis of love, which always has to be chosen and not forced. If I force you do love me, that's not love at all. Worship (adoration) is also based in free will. I can force you to bow, and I can force you to submit, and I can force you to obey, but I can't force you to adore. Adoration must be an exercise of the will to be true worship. Notice in Philippians 2.10-11 that every knee will bow (indeed), and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, but even those are different from adoration. Love and adoration both require free will. It's a contradiction for God to create beings with free will where the only choice is to love and adore. That's not free will, it's not love, and it's not adoration.