Board index ‹ Free Will

[Hender Williamshot]

Different religious denominations teach different criteria for salvation based upon the same Bible teachings that you call obvious. The "truth" must not be that obvious.

There can be only one "truth" in doctrine related to the Elect, losing one's salvation, the requirement of baptism, following God's Law, unforgivable sin, the degree of faith required, etc.

I'm not asking for your opinion on the specific issues listed above, just an acknowledgement that different opinions exist among Christian who are earnestly seeking the truth.

Otherwise, whichever group holds the correct combination of beliefs regarding all issues relating to salvation, is the only group earnestly seeking God, and all others are consciously choosing to remain in sin, but for some reason they pretend to be Christians.

[jimwalton]

> Different religious denominations teach different criteria for salvation

Regarding salvation, denominations agree on a core that includes about 90-95% of what salvation is, with only a small margin of differing nuances in tiny areas. By and large, Christians agree on what salvation is and how it comes to us. I'll agree that different opinions exist, but they are slight.

> Otherwise, whichever group holds the correct combination of beliefs regarding all issues relating to salvation, is the only group earnestly seeking God, and all others are consciously choosing to remain in sin, but for some reason they pretend to be Christians.

This isn't true. The Nazarenes believe one can lose his salvation, while Baptists believe you can't, but they agree on what salvation is and don't claim that the others are "remaining in their sin." Lutherans believe that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ once ingested, while Presbyterians and Methodists believe it's just symbolic, but they still agree on salvation and don't claim that the others are "remaining in their sin."

[Eye to Eye]

I'm having trouble understanding something. I always assumed that God didn't just create humans that followed his will because he wanted them to choose it themselves. If I'm on the right track there, then how is leading humanity to obtain a sinful nature in order for them to have a reason to follow God not sort of the same thing?

That's like saying you don't want to force people to be your friend, but you created a cure for a disease that you exposed people to and they have to agree to be your friend to receive the vaccine...

[jimwalton]

Thanks for asking. You're right that God didn't create humans as robots. Everything isn't determined for us; we have free will. Without free will, there is no such thing as knowledge, since we have to weigh evidences and make a choice. There's no such thing as science since we have to consider alternate explanations and decide which conforms most to reality. There's no such thing as love since forced affection isn't love at all. So you're right that God wanted us to choose it for ourselves. There is no other choice.

> then how is leading humanity to obtain a sinful nature in order for them to have a reason to follow God not sort of the same thing?

And...here's the problem with your thinking. God didn't lead humanity to obtain a sinful nature. Genesis 2 is clear that God was leading humanity to life (tree of life) and wisdom (don't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil). The tree of knowledge of good and evil symbolize making a moral choice to follow God's wisdom rather than relying on our own faulty thinking and incomplete knowledge base. God was leading humanity down the right path (to obtain a godly nature); it was humans who chose the sinful path of disobedience and rebellion.

> That's like saying you don't want to force people to be your friend, but you created a cure for a disease that you exposed people to and they have to agree to be your friend to receive the vaccine...

Therefore your analogy is off base. God wanted to be our friend, but he never exposed them to the "disease" of sin. The serpent did (Gn. 3.1-7). It wasn't God's doing. God had actually warned them not to grab the disease because it would be fatal to them.