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How to Understand the Trinity

Paul didn't believe in the Trinity

Postby Silk Fiji » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:35 pm

Paul teaches Jesus was a god, not the highest god.

Jesus is the power of God and the wisdom of God, but not himself God (1 Cor. 1.24), only the image of God (literally, ‘God’s icon’, 2 Cor. 4.4; though compare 1 Cor. 11.7, where the same is said of ordinary men, but there only through their unity with Christ); he was made by God (1 Cor. 1.30). He sits at the right hand of God and pleads with God on our behalf (Rom. 8.34). All things were made by God, but through the agency of Christ (1 Cor. 8.4-6). Christ is given the form of a god, but refuses to seize that opportunity to make himself equal to God, but submits to incarnation and death instead, for which obedience God grants him supreme authority (Phil. 2.5-11). And Christ will in the end deliver the kingdom to God, who only gave Christ the authority to rule and wage war on God’s behalf; and in the end Christ will give that authority back to God (1 Cor. 15.24-28). Thus in our earliest sources Jesus was always distinguished as a different entity from God, and as his subordinate. Even in Colossians he is the image of God, not God himself; in fact, he is ‘the firstborn of all creation’ (and thus a created being), and ‘God dwelled within him’, in the same sense as was imagined for Jewish prophets, priests and kings (Col. 1.15-19). Thus in Rom. 1.4 (and all of Hebrews 1) Jesus is only appointed the ‘Son of God’. This was precisely how the phrase ‘Son of God’ and the concepts of divine ‘incarnation’ and ‘indwelling’ were then understood by the Jews. This was therefore not a radical idea but entirely in accord with popular Jewish theology. This would still make Jesus a god in common pagan parlance, but not in the usual vocabulary of Jews, who would sooner call such a divine being an archangel or celestial ‘lord’.
Silk Fiji
 

Re: Paul didn't believe in the Trinity

Postby jimwalton » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:24 pm

There are many mistakes, mistranslations, misunderstandings, and misinterpretations in your paragraph. I'll see if I have room to deal with them all.

First, Paul did believe in the trinity. He occasionally disagreed with the Apostles about some minor things, but on Jesus's divine nature, there is only widespread conviction by all of them of Jesus's divine nature.

1 Corinthians 8.6, possibly the first New Testament writing about Jesus's divinity, puts Jesus on the "Creator" side of the Creator/creature divide.

In Philippians 2.6-11, Paul presents Christ as truly divine.

1 Cor. 12.4-6 mentions all three as equals.

In 1 Cor. 12.1-3; Gal. 4.4; Rom. 1.3-4; 8.11 Paul sees the Spirit's identity as defined by how the Father and Christ have sent him, and likewise the identities of the Father and Christ as "in part" determined by the Spirit.

Ephesians 2.18 shows that Jesus gives us access to the Father by means of the Spirit. So Jesus' blood is them means of access, but the Spirit is also the means of access. The result is that by reconciling people to Himself, Jesus reconciles people to God.

For that matter, all throughout Paul's writings God and Christ and Spirit are mutually defining and reciprocally implicating. That is, God's identity is defined in/through/by his relationship to Christ/Son, and vice versa, and also with regard to the Spirit, as listed above.

Romans 8 is infused with Father, Son, and Spirit working as equals and with equal authority, power, and presence. They are one undivided divine essence with different actions appropriate to their persons.

In Romans 9.5, Paul says explicitly that the Messiah (who is Jesus, vv. 1, 3) is God.

Titus 3.3-8. All three Persons of the Trinity are present and cooperating in the act of grace. Each Person has His function in the salvation of our soul.

There are also plenty of the places where the Father is equated with the Son, and the Son is equated with the Spirit. So if the principle holds that if A1 = A2 & A2 = A3, then A1 also equals A3.

But now let's look at some of your specific verses.

1 Cor. 1.24. As Augustine said, "The power and wisdom that the Son is, is identically the same power and wisdom that the Father is. God is identical with each of his attributes, and every attribute is identical with every other attribute. ... Furthermore, given divine simplicity, the divine attributes cannot be multiplied; there cannot be two powers of God or two wisdoms of God. Therefore, to call Christ the power and wisdom of God is to affirm that Christ is God by virtue of his sharing in identically the same substance as the Father (identified by power and wisdom)."

2 Cor. 4.4. "Eikon" is one in whom the likeness of someone else is seen. Jesus makes the invisible visible (Jn. 14.9). Paul uses this word to expression of death of Christ in relation to the Father. Christ is more than "like" God, he is the visible expression of God.

1 Cor. 1.30. This verse says nothing about Jesus having been made by God.

1 Cor. 8.4-6. You're right that Jesus is the agent of creation. This doesn't lower Jesus to the rank of simply an instrument, but merely implies a different relation to creation on the part of the Father and the Son.

Phil. 2.5-11. "Morphe" (Phil. 2.6) here speaks of Christ's preexistence and the form in which he appeared to the inhabitants of heaven, i.e., He has God's attributes. "Morphe" here mean that expression of being that is identified with the essential nature and character of God, and which reveals it. He existed eternally in the very nature (form) of God. He didn't enter into this state, but existed eternally as deity, equal with God the Father.

Rom. 8.34. It's true that he sits at God's right hand and pleads with God on our behalf. The doctrine of the Trinity holds that there are 3 persons of the Trinity who are one in their divine essence but distinct in their divine activity.

1 Cor. 15.24-28. It doesn't say he will hand his authority back to God, but only that in the end times his role as mediator will come to complete, and he will rule only as God. You'll notice and He and the Father share sovereignty and dominion (15.27). In v. 28 we read that he is subject to the Father as well as equal to the Father, showing that his submission to the Father was based on equality and shared authority.

>Even in Colossians he is the image of God, not God himself

We've already addressed the meaning of "eikon," and it doesn't mean that Jesus is not God Himself. Verse 19 is clear that Christ shares full deity.

> firstborn of all creation

This doesn't mean he is the first created thing, or even created at all, but that he preceded creation (he was eternally existent). As "image" points to "revelation," so "firstborn" points to "eternal preexistence. Christ could not have been the first created thing, because that thought is contradicted by the very next verse (Col. 1.16).

> ‘God dwelled within him’, in the same sense as was imagined for Jewish prophets, priests and kings (Col. 1.15-19).

Not in the same sense at all. There is nothing in Col. 1.15-19 that leads us to your conclusion.


Rom. 1.4. This "appointment" didn't make Him the Son of God, but "declared" Him to be what He eternally was already: The Son of God, the 2nd person of the Trinity. A.T. Robertson says, "He was the Son of God in his pre-incarnate states (2 Cor. 8.9; Phil. 2.6) and still so after his incarnation (Rom. 1.3), but it was the resurrection of the dead that definitely marked Jesus off as God's Son because of his claims about himself as God's Son and his prophecy that he would rise on the third day. This event (1 Cor. 15) gave God's seal 'with power.' The resurrection of Christ is the miracle of miracles. 'The resurrection only declared him to be what he truly was' (Denny)."

So, my conclusion is that you have mistaken and misinterpreted every single text and have drawn the wrong conclusion from your misunderstandings. Paul believes very strongly in the Trinity.


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