Board index ‹ Creation and Evolution

[Brian]

Evolution and the idea that we are just a result of randomness seems to hold stock in my mind.

[jimwalton]

Now we're havin' fun. Genesis 1 is an extremely and deeply misunderstood chapter of the Bible. A close examination of the text shows that it is about function, not structure. It's about God bringing order and purpose to the universe, not about him making anything. (There are other parts of the Bible that say God made everything, but Gn. 1 isn't one of them.) So about the only thing we know for certain from the Bible is that God is the creator. For everything else, we have to turn to science. Here's the deal: science can tell us HOW and WHEN about things, and the Bible tells us WHY about things. The Bible doesn't try to answer the HOW question, and science doesn't (or shouldn't) try to answer the WHY question. There is NO contradiction between good science and good theology.

There are two problems:

1. Lousy science, where scientists with an agenda aren't totally honest with us, and so we're not getting the full story, or sometimes even the right one.

2. Lousy theology, where Bible teachers are paying enough attention to the facts, and so we're not getting the truth about what the Bible teaches.

The result? People fight and fight about creation or origins stuff because SO many people have been misled that it's ridiculous. RIDICULOUS! We have to rely on actual GOOD science and GOOD Bible teaching to find out the truth, and the two don't contradict for those who are paying attention.

The Bible is telling us the purpose of things: that life is orderly (and God made it that way), and that life has a purpose and meaning (the one God gave it). That's all, but those are biggies.

There is SO much to write: cambrian explosion, geologic record, big bang theory, intelligent design, astronomy, evolutionary theory, fossil record, skull discovery — all GOOD science needs to be paid attention to (though sometimes it's real tough to separate good science from bad).

As to your question though: are we the result of randomness? As I said before, religion and religious teaching are all a matter of he said/she said until Jesus came out of the tomb. Now the discussion changes, and there's actual PROOF of something somebody said about religion. And the guy who comes out of his own coffin gets my vote.

Here's the upshot: if it's NOT true, and religion is just people's opinions, or wishes, or fears, then you're right: it's all randomness. The inevitable result of that is that the only meaning in life is the meaning you choose to give it. If you're just an accident, and there's nothing "bigger" going on, then you need to understand what you're choosing. The only meaning in life is the meaning you choose to give it: happiness, money, power, doing good, survival—whatever you see it to be and make it to be. And it doesn't matter what other people think, because it's all ultimately meaningless in the end anyway. Do what you want; make yourself happy. If you hurt somebody else, it doesn't matter. It's just random, right? Your life is all there really is, and when you're dead, it's over. So make of it whatever you can. But you have to be consistent with it. If somebody shoots your mother, it may make you sad, but ultimately it doesn't matter. It only means something in your emotions and nowhere else. If you get rich or poor, healthy or sick, you can't get angry, or really happy, because it's all random. you can't reasonably take too much credit or get too upset because it's all random and meaningless. See? If this is what you believe, then this is what you have to believe. You can't have your cake and eat it too, meaning, you can't say life is random, and therefore meaningless, but then live as if there is meaning to things.

The other option, given the resurrection, is that Jesus really is God, and he has given purpose to the universe, and he loves you. Wow—this is a WHOLE different scenario. He says if you turn your life over to him, he will fill you and teach you and give your life meaning.

So, what makes more sense? Where is the evidence? After all, we have to use reason, but ultimately, both choices are choices of faith. There isn't enough evidence in either direction to really satisfy us, so we have to choose what we're going to believe.

[adamlwalton]

for the sake of argument, please follow the logic in this (not that I disagree with your answer in the least)

you stated "There isn't enough evidence in either direction to really satisfy us, so we have to choose what we're going to believe." With that being said, wouldn't the majority of mankind CHOOSE the selfish? Man was born into sin, therefore choose to follow their own tendencies. Most Bible toting preachers give the "you just have to have faith" bit, though there are plenty of facts, both scientific and faith based, to support their claim. Those who believe in evolution usually stout their opinions without being fully knowledgable on the facts of the research, or the spiritual side. What we are looking at is a time of misinformation, especially with the internet at everyone's disposal.

[jimwalton]

Well, I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but I'll take a stab at it. Yeah, people will generally choose what's "selfish." Obviously, people choose things like what benefits them, what makes them comfortable, what satisfies their sense of reason, and, ultimately, what they want to believe. We do live in a time of tremendous misinformation, but we also live in a time of explosive good information. There's so much information we easily get overwhelmed, and then usually kick back to a default level that we feel we can cope with and that makes sense to us. The Internet, though strewn with falsehoods, is a tremendous resource of good and reliable information. Sorting it all out can be close to impossible, especially for someone like me that only has a limited amount of time to read, and I only have access to a certain amount of stuff anyway. But that's like most people. We have to work pretty hard to be objective, to be well read, and to get to the bottom of things.

You mentioned that those who believe in evolution usually tout their opinions without beings fully knowledgable on the facts of the research, or the spiritual side. That may be so, but the other side of the coin is just as guilty: those who oppose evolution are quite often full of their own opinions too without having a full grasp of the facts of the research, or the biology side.

So saying, what we end up believing often ends up being just that: what we choose to believe in the crush of all the information coming at us.

If I didn't answer your question, ask again.