Board index ‹ LGBT: Gays, Lesbians, Bisexual, Transgender, and Homosexuality

[paigesoflove]

Why do we as Christians, as a whole, treat homosexuality as though it is the ultimate sin. That and fornication, but mainly homosexuality. We act as though being gay is irreparable. We act as though God will never love them, won't ever love them, and should never love them. Homosexuality is a sin, yes, but it's a sin like any other. Lying, stealing, disobedience, all these things are sins and we all do them on daily basis, so why do we single out being gay as the worst sin? Isn't that a sin in it's self?

[jimwalton]

You're certainly right that homosexuality is not the ultimate sin. Though there are some sins that are worse than others (John 19.11), we are never told what the hierarchy is, and it's only our intuitions or our biases that make us rank sins. The Bible does speak often about sexual sins in general, but even that doesn't mean that sexual sins are worse than other sins. I agree with you.

As far as "we act as though gay is irreparable", that's a more difficult area. There is a strong push now to recognize all homosexuality as "natural", meaning we were born with it. The research is still contrasting on that point. I think that some are, and some choose it. There is also great debate going on right now as to whether or not homosexuals can learn to be straight. I just don' t know. The ministry called "Exodus" recently went out of business, saying they had done wrong to the Gay/Lesbian/Transgender community. Again, these are things that aren't in the Bible but are just part of the sociology and psychology of our culture. Can a gay person change to being straight? It has certainly happened, especially among those who choose homosexuality as a lifestyle and sexual preference. Can ANY gay person change to being straight. I'm not at all convinced about that one.

And I most certainly I agree with you that God loves them, as he tells all of his followers to love all people. In Matthew 7.1, believers are taught not to judge anyone. It's not our place; God is the judge of humans and their behavior. Someone said (and Iike this): "Don't judge someone else because they sin differently than you." Bingo. Certainly we understand that as Christians we are taught to help each other along the way in terms of what Christ wants and what is taught in his word. For that we need to judge each other in that aspect. It's also proper to evaluate truth and error, and some people consider that "judging," but we're supposed to do that. What we're not supposed to do is to become indifferent to evil, or to pass any kind of sentence on a person's worth, or condemn someone morally. That's not our place, but God's.

But why do we single out this issue so highly above so many others? I think that part is cultural. The generation of the 60s was perhaps the most aggressive rejection of dominant values that any society has ever permitted without seriously attempting to curb the attack, and without defending the values under assault. As a result, there was an erosion of values and morals that we have not only never recovered from, but continues to play itself out in tearing down the moral base of society that held it together. The gay issue is probably not particularly worse than dozens of other issues (economic injustice, sex trafficking, etc.), but it is perceived by many as a pillar, a lightning rod, and a gateway. A pillar, because it is believed that heterosexual marriage is one of the basic elements of a moral society; a lightning rod, because the gay agenda has been shoving their viewpoint down everyone's throats for years, insisting on recognition as a legitimate moral lifestyle, and those against it are pushing back; and a gateway, because it is feared that to allow this kind of marriage on the basis of rights and love is going to necessitate allowing other kinds of marriage (polygamy and incest, for instance) on the basis of rights and love.

Feel free to talk to me more about this.

[paigesoflove]

So, could it be that the way our society looks down on homosexuality, it provokes others to claim to be gay or even want to be gay? We as humans have always seemed to make a point to do exactly whatever people tells us is wrong(hence, Adam and Eve). So we make a big deal about homosexuality and (so it seems) people are drawn to it more than ever. Instead of gently guiding people towards the truth Christians bash them over the head with the Bible, trying to force them to change their ways. People are already just waiting for Christians to say something offensive so that they can jump to their own defense. The Bible says to"live peaceably with all men as much lieth within us" (Roman 12:18) So our hounding is going against what the Bible says to avoid. I'm not saying we should ignore what is happening, but there must be some way to follow what the Bible says and get our point across, kindly and gently. Jesus didn't assault people because of their sins and we are supposed to be Christlike. So is it possible that if Christians laid back and gave their message gently and then let God do his work(because that's all we need) would all of this opposition still happen?

[jimwalton]

Well, I certainly agree with that! The Apostle Paul tells us that the Law just motivated people to sin more (Rom. 7.7-8, 19-20). And I also agree that if we Christians were a little more gentle about things, it would go further (Gal. 6.1). We know that Jesus was very gentle with sinners of every stripe; he was harsh only with religious hypocrites. I once heard someone (a speaker) say, "Jesus never called us to change the world; he called us to change ourselves." We know that we are to make disciples of all nations, but that certainly doesn't include showing up at public places with hateful signs full of lies such as "God Hates Fags." There is never a call for that kind of behavior, and we don't see any biblical examples telling us to do that. Some may say that the prophets of old did that, but they surely did not. The prophets were sent to ISRAEL—God's people. Yes, Jonah was sent to Nineveh, but look what happened there, and it's a lesson for us all. Isaiah condemned the godless nations of Tyre, Babylon, Assyria, and others, but that is in no way a call for Christians to point out every sin they see when they see it. Jesus, who was omniscient, certainly didn't behave that way, as you said.

Thanks for your letter.

[gmw803]

Here is my observation on why sex sins seem to attract so much attention from the church. I offer it for free, and it is worth every penny.

Except for the object of our worship, and the canons of sexual purity, the conduct commanded by God approximates the norm of behavior in the world. There is disagreement on the boundaries of the remaining commandments (think situation ethics), but the core commandments align fairly well. Even in cases of raw adultery, the world is reluctant to give the thumbs up, for fear of harming the children.

This essentially parallel path, with two cross-sections, plays into the dynamics of church discipline as described in Matthew 18:15-20. Remember that all but the final step is private. If a brother is involved in theft and is exposed, he instantly realizes he will get support neither from the church nor the world, and he likely will repent during the early stages, and the matter will be settled without fanfare.

It is difficult to envision what church discipline means for modern day idolatry. Church members are generally not fans of Satan-worship. In a previous post on Leviticus 18, I lamented that too many Christians place their trust in the novetheon of the United States Supreme Court rather than in the true and living God. And I am as concerned about such worship. But I would have a difficult time arguing the case before the discipline committee of my church.

In other words, except for sex sins, all manner of church discipline is either settled or overlooked at the early non-public stage. To the bean-counters, who are unable to count the beans that don't make it, all the church concerns itself with is sex. I submit that this proves that Matthew 18 works.

[jimwalton]

Thanks, gmw. It is impossible to create statistics on how much work is being done behind the scenes to address the subjects of things such as homosexuality, adultery, premarital sex, and other sexual sins. We are to be in a constant mode of helping each other along the Way with whatever small course corrections are beneficial. And often a word to the wise is sufficient. Many greater efforts are unnecessary as people are responsive to good advice spoken compassionately and privately. It's the "stitch in time save nine" approach.

Thanks for your post.

[sexnews]

In other words, except for sex sins, all manner of church discipline is either settled or overlooked at the early non-public stage. To the bean-counters, who are unable to count the beans that don't make it, all the church concerns itself with is sex. I submit that this proves that Matthew 18 works. for more go The Lesbian

[jimwalton]

I don't understand your link. I went there, and it's just an article in some extremely poor, non-understandable English.

I would submit that we hardly hear anything about church discipling at all. I would tend to think that either it's not happening, or most of it is dealt with in-house and doesn't make the evening news. Only extreme cases ever become public, and those that do are often distorted and one-sided reporting of the incident.

Matthew 18 certainly has some worthy principles of conflict management. It also shows us that spiritual formation is designed to work primarily in the context of community.

But I'll be frank and say that I don't really understand your comment or your link. Write back to me if this is really a human and not spam. Thanks.