by jimwalton » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:35 pm
> They are the oldest sect, and it's their own doctrine that the Bible is the product of the church
This is not necessarily so. The oldest sect of Christianity is the apostolic church itself, which had only local hierarchy, and which existed for centuries. The Apostolic and Church Fathers had positions where their authority was recognized, but there was no centralized governance.
In AD 325, Emperor Constantine convened a council (Nicea) to deal with the issue of Christ's deity. There was still no centralized governance of the Church.
In 190, Victor, the bishop of Rome, attempted to declare himself as the head of the church. He was roundly criticized and resisted.
It was in 440 that Leo declared himself as the first bishop of Rome to be recognized as the head of the church, and to some extent, he succeeded. But it did not sit well with many congregations, who reacted negatively to the idea that any man was the head of the church. Congregations were considered independent, as part of the whole, with Christ as the head.
The Islamic invasion of Europe in the 600s plunged Europe into the Dark Ages. The conquest resulted in the Church of Rome getting involved much more in politics. Many Christians all over Europe were killed. The eastern part of the Church suffered the most in people killed and territory lost to the Muslims. Rome banded with the military to repel the Muslim armies. Rome was still not recognized by many Christians as their authority on Earth.
Rome continued to flex its ecclesiastical muscle, with more and more churches coming under its protection (and therefore its rules). By the early part of the 6th century, the Church owned 1/3 of all Italy.
St. Patrick of Ireland (not a Roman Catholic), started a massive missionary movement in Europe, planting Celtic monasteries all over the landscape. The papacy competed with them for congregations. Eventually the Celtic congregations submitted to Rome.
The era of 814-962 was one of pure chaos for the Church. It had become political, militaristic, and corrupt. It again became decentralized. Congregations refused to submit or to recognize any head over them except Christ. After the death of Nicholas 1, the papacy declined into utter chaos. Christendom had 3 leaders, depending on whom one spoke with: Christ, the Emperor, or the Pope.
1054 is when the great schism occurred. The Pope (western church) and Patriarch (eastern church) excommunicated each other, both convinced they were the true church and the other was wayward.
All of this is to show that in no sense can you rightfully assert that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the oldest sect.
> Bible is the product of the church
It depends what you mean by this. The Bible is realistically the product of the apostles and those who knew them. This was recognized by the Church at large through the first several centuries, and affirmed at the Council of Hippo in 393 and then again at the Council of Carthage in 397. The Church didn't produce them, but only affirmed them as authoritative.
Last bumped by Anonymous on Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:35 pm.